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[issue] The feasibility of destructible player-built outposts in Eve

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Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.06 18:07:00 - [1] I get exactly where you're coming from with the problem of 0.0 and the sov system as well as the impact smaller organisations can have on an area of space But this just ain't the right solution, because it has a lot of unintended consequences. The most important is that lack of security. When someone logs off to go on holiday for two weeks, they want to know that when they come back, even if their alliance collapses and they lose all their POS, space etc, their assets will still exist in game. Because it is just a game. Even if you lose an outpost and docking rights, you still have the opportunity to recover those assets you have stuck in station through hard work or whatever This change basically completely devalues outposts. There isn't much you can't do cheaper with POS, but guarantee security is one thing, and security is one of the cornerstones of any civilisation. Security is already a lot worse in Eve than IRL. It'd be even more unrealistic to make it worse. A better idea would be to improve the system whereby outposts are damaged and subsequently repaired
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.06 18:16:00 - [2] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Pezzle A vote for you means the voter supports all of your ideas? That is very convenient. Hey, here is an idea. Why not skip the discussion of topics all together and just have the reps vote up issues they want to push. After all, they got the votes so naturally that means everyone agrees with everything they say, right? Well Pezzle would you agree a fair degree of the people who voted for me supported a fair number of my ideas? How about that? Otherwise why do you think they voted for me? Lol, you really think being popular makes you right? But like I say, I think you got the wrong solution to the right problem
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.06 18:36:00 - [3] Originally by: Kelsin Originally by: Spoon Thumb I get exactly where you're coming from with the problem of 0.0 and the sov system as well as the impact smaller organisations can have on an area of space But this just ain't the right solution, because it has a lot of unintended consequences. The most important is that lack of security. When someone logs off to go on holiday for two weeks, they want to know that when they come back, even if their alliance collapses and they lose all their POS, space etc, their assets will still exist in game. Because it is just a game. Even if you lose an outpost and docking rights, you still have the opportunity to recover those assets you have stuck in station through hard work or whatever This change basically completely devalues outposts. There isn't much you can't do cheaper with POS, but guarantee security is one thing, and security is one of the cornerstones of any civilisation. Security is already a lot worse in Eve than IRL. It'd be even more unrealistic to make it worse. A better idea would be to improve the system whereby outposts are damaged and subsequently repaired Spoon this is both a great idea and actually already part of the OP: Originally by: Jade Constantine Personal hangers inside the wrecked outpost are still available to their owners however as ôsalvageö and this in itself will lead to future pvp opportunities around the wreck for some time to come. I would be happy to see the wreck grant a certain discount to rebuilding for people wanting to establish another outpost on the same site. Damaged =/= destroyed
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.06 19:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Kelsin Originally by: Spoon Thumb Originally by: Kelsin Originally by: Spoon Thumb blah Spoon this is both a great idea and actually already part of the OP: Originally by: Jade Constantine Personal hangers inside the wrecked outpost are still available to their owners however as ôsalvageö and this in itself will lead to future pvp opportunities around the wreck for some time to come. I would be happy to see the wreck grant a certain discount to rebuilding for people wanting to establish another outpost on the same site. Damaged =/= destroyed Weren't you suggesting it would be great if assets in the station were recoverable? No, destroyed is very different from damaged. There is a big difference between repairing an overheated module to salvaging something from a ship wreck. Was implying that if anything, should be on the overheating side of things But I still think that this will cause more problems than it solves even if watered down and there are much better ways to try to solve the same problems this attempts to
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.06 19:43:00 - [5] Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 06/06/2008 19:44:23 Originally by: Kelsin We're kind of going in circles here, but these arguments you outline are what I find lacking: 1. Other issues are more worthy of attention Been over that, it seems there's plenty of room on the docket. 2. Destroyable outposts would stagnate 0.0. As long as there is an advantage in owning an Outpost, people will build them. Fear of an Outpost boycott is pretty fanciful, and what this comes down to is the relative risk vs. reward of constructing an Outpost. Destructability can be part of the risk-reward equation. 3. Destroyable outposts would lead to depopulated (and peaceful?) 0.0 See #2. If you want to argue that there's no way to balance the destructability of Outposts in the risk-reward equation, I can only point at the POS as an example of where it was done before. If it works for the POS, it can work for Outposts. You're suggesting making outposts into giant POS. Do you know why there are so few outpost upgrades? Because you get more value for money building 3 new outposts than upgrading one fully The same would happen for outposts if you made them like giant POS. Why put all your effort into one mega-expensive destructable outpost when you can spread risk and arguably do more with lots of POS Outposts really aren't that great, and a fully upgraded one can't compete with an NPC station. Their value is a large part in the security they provide by their nature as indestructable Like I said earlier, this would seriously de-value them in real-terms usefulness to 0.0 alliances Edit: Also POS are thoroughly borked in every sense, so it doesn't work for POS either :P

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